Philippines: America’s Ally and Strategic Archipelago

>> H.R. McMaster: America and other free and open societies face crucial challenges and opportunities abroad that affect security and prosperity at home. This is a series of conversations with guests who bring deep understanding of today's battlegrounds and creative ideas about how to compete, overcome challenges, capitalize on opportunities, and secure a better future.

I am H.R. McMaster, this is Battlegrounds.

>> Presenter: On today's episode of Battlegrounds, our focus is on the Philippines. Our guest, Gilberto Teodoro, is Secretary of National Defense of the Philippines. Teodoro has served as Secretary since 2023 after holding the position from 2007 to 2009. Teodoro was previously Congressman of the first District of Tarlac for three consecutive terms starting in 1998.

While in Congress, he authored 106 bills, served as Assistant Majority Leader, and was head of the Nationalist People's Coalition House members. Teodoro holds a bachelor's degree from De La Salle University, studied law at the University of the Philippines, and earned his Master of Laws at Harvard. Humans have inhabited the islands of the Philippines since prehistoric times.

Beginning in the eighth century, maritime trade introduced Indian, Chinese and Arab influences to the approximately 2,000 inhabited islands that are clustered into the three major island groups of Luzon, the Visayas, and Mindanao. Arab and Persian traders brought Islam to the Philippines and multiple Philipino rulers established sultanates. On March 16, 1521, Portuguese explorer Ferdinand Magellan, sailing for Spain, claimed the archipelago for King Philip II.

The Spanish introduced Christianity and used the Philippines as a trading post for Southeast Asia as well as a stop between China and Mexico. In the late 19th century, educated Filipino nationalists led the propaganda movement against Spanish colonization and advocated for political reform, while General Emilio Aguinaldo led the military element of the Revolution.

The Philippines declared independence on June 12, 1898 and instituted a provisional republic. However, after the US victory in the Spanish American War, the United States gained control of the Philippines. General Aguinaldo led Philippine armed resistance against US governance unsuccessfully from 1899 to 1902, first by conventional and then guerrilla tactics.

In 1907, the United States began to introduce elements of self governance to the Philippines, and in 1916 the Jones Act promised eventual independence. In 1935, the Treaty of the Commonwealth outlined a 10 year road to full independence. However, on December 8, 1941, the day after the attack on Pearl Harbor, Japan invaded the Philippines, initiating a campaign that resulted in the worst defeat in US military history.

Approximately 12,000American and 63,000 Philipino prisoners of war endured the Bataan Death March. An estimated 7,000 to 10,000 died as they were starved, shot or bayoneted while they marched 65 miles to camps. Survivors spent the rest of the war in harsh captivity, during which an estimated 8,000 American and 26,000 Philipino prisoners died.

On October 20, 1944, General Douglas MacArthur fulfilled his promise to return to the Philippines, leading a campaign that began with a landing at Leyte and ended in July 1945 with the restoration of the Commonwealth of the Philippines. One year later, the Philippines gained full independence. In 1951, the Philippines signed the Mutual Defense treaty with the United States, which requires both countries to support each other militarily if one faces an external armed attack in the Pacific.

Since independence, brief periods of conflict have punctuated mainly peaceful transitions of power. In 1972, President Ferdinand Marcos, at the end of his constitutionally permitted eight years in office, declared martial law, suspended parliament, and imprisoned opposition leader Benigno Aquino Jr. Aquino's assassination in 1983 sparked overwhelming popular unrest against Marcos.

In 1986, Aquino's widow Corazon became president, and the following year the Philippines ratified a new constitution in addition to resuming regular elections in May 2017. Early in the term of President Rodrigo Duterte, the Philippines faced a major security crisis as Islamic State affiliated rebels occupied the city of Marawi on the island of Mindanao.

Government forces advised by US special forces implemented martial law and defeated the Jihadists in a conflict that displaced 100,000 Philipinos. President Duterte received international criticism for a war on drugs that included thousands of extrajudicial kill. Under Duterte, the Philippines prioritized friendly relations between Beijing and Manila despite mounting Chinese aggression in the South China Sea.

China's encroachment on territory within Philippine waters had prompted the Philippines to file and subsequently win an international arbitration case in 2016 against China for violating the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea. However, Beijing rejected the ruling and continues to pursue unlawful claims to large portions of the Philippines exclusive economic zone.

Chinese navy, coast guard and so called maritime militias continue to harass Philippine vessels and threaten the nation's sovereignty. Current Philippine President Ferdinand Marcos Jr. elected in 2022, has confronted Beijing's aggression in the South China Sea and coordinated his defense of his nation with the United States as a treaty ally.

As well as deepened relations with other partners in the region including Australia and Japan. In 2023, the Philippines granted the United States access to four new military bases and in 2024, the US agreed to provide $500 million in defense aid to modernize the Philippine military. We welcome Secretary Teodoro to discuss the history of US Philippine relations, defense cooperation and security in Southeast Asia.

 

>> H.R. McMaster: Secretary Gilbert Teodoro, what a privilege it is to have you here on Stanford's campus and at Hoover and on Battlegrounds. Welcome, great to be with you.

>> Gilbert Teodoro: Well, it is an honor to be with you here, General Pastor, and to be given the opportunity to articulate vital issues in the Indo Pacific, particularly from the Philippine perspective.

So it is indeed an honor, I look forward to the conversation.

>> H.R. McMaster: Well, the Philippine perspective is always important. It's, I think, even more important now than ever given the dynamics in the South China Sea, in the Indo Pacific region broadly. But also just given our history, the long relationship, the long alliance with the Philippines going back, the defense relationships in 1951.

But of course, the shared experience that we had during World War II, and of course, Philippines becoming a commonwealth, getting independent. And now really just so critical to countering various forms of aggression, especially by the Chinese Communist Party in the South China Sea. But before we get into.

Really the security situation you're confronting today as secretary, could you maybe just your own personal reflections on the US-Philippine relationship? What strikes you the most in that long history, and how do you see it as relevant to today?

>> Gilbert Teodoro: Well, the most important facet of the multifaceted relationship that we have are people to people relationships.

People to people relationships are the strongest bonding factor that any two countries may have. And as you know, America and the Philippines, we share similar cultural values, similar viewpoints, a sort of common language. Because the United States introduced free public education to the Philippines, that's why English is widely spoken.

And the robust and enduring relationship that we have continues, and as a matter of fact, strengthens as the years go by. There may be a little bit of some small dips or zigs and zags, but the trajectory remains the same constantly towards our shared goals. Particularly at this day and age, when we confront an attempt to rewrite the international global order to the selfish interests of a big country.

We know what that country is, that's China. We are both confronting that attempt. And the permutations of this attempt boil down, in the Philippine side, to actual occupation, illegally, of what the Philippines has a right to, which is the West Philippine Sea. Now, for the United States, this is a shared endeavor for the Philippines.

Because we both want a rules-based global order, which China wants to disaggregate using redefinitions of history.

>> H.R. McMaster: The nine-dash line in the South China Sea.

>> Gilbert Teodoro: It's now the ten-dash line, and soon to be probably exponentially greater, as they claim that they are the center of the world.

Then again, right now, with the distortions that a big power player in the Indo-Pacific is doing, our shared experiences, people to people exchanges, cultural similarities. And the values of what life means, the worth of an individual becomes stronger, because we face a common challenge.

>> H.R. McMaster: And I think one of those strong elements of our ties are the extraordinarily strong Filipino-American community, the tremendous diaspora here.

>> Gilbert Teodoro: Sure.

>> H.R. McMaster: When I was the commander of Fort Moore, Georgia, the amazing Philippine Independence Day celebrations. And I think I'd be a few pounds lighter if I hadn't enjoyed so much Philippine food over the many years at these celebrations.

>> Gilbert Teodoro: Well, being here in the Bay Area, you can enjoy the same.

>> H.R. McMaster: That's fantastic, so good, so good. But I'd like to go back to the guise of the serious part of this, which are the challenges that the Philippines is facing. And I'll talk to people in the Indo-Pacific region, in Southeast Asia, and I often hear them say, well, hey, don't force us to choose.

And what they mean is between Beijing and Washington, but I think the choice is really between sovereignty and servitude. And the Chinese Communist Party expects servitude with laying claim to the South China Sea and the surface area of the world through which one third of the world's surface trade flows, for example.

Could you talk about the evolution of this assault on Philippine sovereignty, as well as other countries in the region? How have you seen it evolve? I mean, you've been involved in defense of your nation for decades.

>> Gilbert Teodoro: Yes.

>> H.R. McMaster: And when did this become such a severe problem, and how did it evolve, say, from the early 2000s to today?

>> Gilbert Teodoro: Even further back, I think it evolved from an ideological conflict between communism and non-communist countries. There was the Southeast Asian Treaty Organization, and there was the communist bloc and the free world. And that evolved into the opening up of diplomatic relations between China and the Philippines. And at that time, China's policy was to bide its time, to be a little bit more reserved in international engagements.

But continuing domestic revolutions in order to spread the communist gospel. Then it evolved into the era of reform and opening up. But at that time, in a spot in the West Philippine Sea or the South China Sea, there was a place called Mischief Reef where some structures were erected.

And China in 1995 said, that is just temporary shelter for our fisher folk. And it evolved to slowly China flexing its muscle in the area, to finally, we see artificial islands created, which are heavily militarized.

>> H.R. McMaster: Right, and this is really an acceleration, 2014, 2015 period of time?

>> Gilbert Teodoro: Yes.

>> H.R. McMaster: And then President Xi Jinping, Chairman Xi Jinping comes to visit President Obama, you might recall this. And he says, well, we promise not to militarize these islands, which, of course, he did immediately.

>> Gilbert Teodoro: Yes, definitely, and this evolved into the enactment by China of their maritime law, stating that almost all the South China Sea are internal waters of China.

And in order to change the global international legal regime, they're occupying it by denying access to the area through swarming of vessels with the euphemisms of their People's Liberation Army Navy. Namely, the Chinese Coast Guard, where they have these so-called monster ships right now. And the maritime militia, which in an authoritarian regime are one and the same thing.

And this evolved into actual conflicts in the area, and particularly in the area of Scarborough Shoal. In the meantime, if I digress a little bit, in 2016, the Philippines won an arbitral award.

>> H.R. McMaster: Yes.

>> Gilbert Teodoro: Where the Permanent Court of Arbitration declared that the nine-dash line of China had no basis in law whatsoever.

>> H.R. McMaster: Right.

>> Gilbert Teodoro: And Scarborough Shoal, of which China wants to deny not only Philippine presence, but Vietnamese presence, was a traditional fishing ground of Vietnam, the Philippines, and China. The succession of President Xi Jinping has Ushered in a new era of Chinese aggression and aggressiveness. You have seen the specter of wolf warrior diplomacy.

>> H.R. McMaster: Yes.

>> Gilbert Teodoro: You have seen China challenging the international legal order with its attempt to create a community of shared destiny for the future of humankind.

>> H.R. McMaster: Which ought to sound very scary to everybody.

>> Gilbert Teodoro: Yeah with Chinese-

>> H.R. McMaster: This is global civilization initiative as far right.

>> Gilbert Teodoro: And all of this together with the consolidation by President Xi Jinping of power, just goes to point out that these acts will continue.

And for whatever reason, the Philippines does not need to make a choice, to go back to your earlier question. Firstly, legally we are treaty allies. We are mutual defense treaty allies, so that should put the question to rest. However, progressing further and deeper, what is being done to the Philippines is forcible stealing of its sovereign rights in the exclusive economic zone which the Philippines has the sole right to explore, exploit resources in by China.

And doing this through not only words but through muscle, trying to crowd us out, trying to change narratives, trying to subvert our domestic economy, trying to subvert structures, trying to influence others, not to side with the Philippines. And to say that a perfectly legal process which resulted in an arbitral award is a scrap of paper, which is nothing.

So what I'm trying to say now is for the Philippines, what China is doing compels the Philippines to defend itself, to assert our rights against China. So they have only themselves to blame if we are choosing the side of the right, the correct, not the physical right, but the correct side, the correct path, to use their words, take the right path and the correct route.

>> H.R. McMaster: Right, which is what they want is a subservient relationship is the right path from their perspective. You've noted a lot of the acts of aggression, right? Building of violence, weaponizing these islands, really destroying reeves and ecosystems as they're doing it. So I just wonder where's Greenpeace when they ought to be protesting that?

Or the complete devastation of fisheries for example. And again this infringement on sovereignty. And of course they have their ion energy resources and everything. But could you maybe explain really some more about the tactics? We were talking about some of the aggression, but you've alluded to other tactics as well, ways that they try to co-opt and then once they co-opt you to coerce you.

Because when I think back to President Duterte's time, you could say China was relatively successful in co-option of the elements of the Philippines government. And now of course President Marcos, as you've mentioned, confronting this aggression has taken a much stronger stance. Could you maybe describe in more detail the tactics that the Chinese employees, the effect that they've had and how you've seen the policy of the Philippine government evolving over the last couple of administrations.

>> Gilbert Teodoro: Okay, the tactical advantage of the Chinese in co-option exercises is that they can work with cold cash. They're not subject to FATF or due diligence rules and regulations. So they can co-opt a lot, particularly in marginalized communities and marginalized areas. And they've been doing this a lot till lately when we've been taking positive steps to stop these practices.

Secondly, they have expanded. They were able to expand criminal syndicate activities which also weakened the domestic economy through Internet gaming, gambling, human trafficking, drugs and the like. Thirdly, they have been able to assume fake citizenships and identities to enable them or their agents or people under their influence.

China has only itself to blame. If we must digress right now because of their 2017 intelligence law, which mandates every Chinese company or citizen to be an agent of the Chinese intelligence establishment.

>> H.R. McMaster: Right, has to act as norm of the government basically.

>> Gilbert Teodoro: Yes and so they have only themselves to blame if we are suspicious of any Chinese national.

How we know what the bona fide is of this person. Now they were able to acquire land curiously alongside strategic

>> H.R. McMaster: As they have in the United States too.

>> Gilbert Teodoro: Yes. And they have tried and have succeeded in certain cases to make inroads in critical infrastructure. They have succeeded in subverting the establishment of critical industries like a steel industry by depressing the market with substandard steel and just dumping the Chinese steel international market.

Clearly what they did was to donate for free induction furnaces, which is unproven and bad technology, obsolete meals to certain recipients in the Philippines were able to produce a substandard steel for the market. However slowly we have been putting a stop to this. And naturally there is hacking and other pernicious practices that have been happening.

The case of undocumented aliens, the case of drugs is slowly being addressed by the Philippine government. And another tactic that they use is the attempt to influence the local governments by sister cityhood initiatives where a city or a locality gets a favored Chinese treatment. Thirdly also were research grants given to domestic educational institutions which are used purportedly as cover for scanning the area, environmental scanning and so forth and so on.

We are watching out with a keen eye on these activities. But then there are the tactics once again of misinformation and disinformation. For example, when the future. The Philippines wants to create a more robust deterrent capability. They immediately say that these acts are destabilizing to the region when they themselves have one of the largest nuclear arsenals, have ballistic capability.

And other capabilities which the world does not know because the government in China is a closed one. They are unaccountable to anyone except the Politburo or the Standing Committee of the Communist Party. As the Philippines has an open government, it's transparent. Of course, we have security regulations but then again, we are accountable to the world, particularly now when we have to be an upholder of international norms of good conduct of countries, because we are busy building an international alliance to support international law.

So the tactics of China, the United Front Works tactics.

>> H.R. McMaster: Yes, and for our viewers, this is the department within the ministry of State Security, the United Front, which advances Chinese Communist Party interests.

>> Gilbert Teodoro: Yes.

>> H.R. McMaster: Through a sophisticated campaign of really political subversion.

>> Gilbert Teodoro: Yes.

>> H.R. McMaster: Disinformation, cyber enabled information warfare.

>> Gilbert Teodoro: Yes.

>> H.R. McMaster: Co-option through organizations like the Chinese Students and Scholars Associations. You've mentioned a lot of their tactics but all this is United Front work according to the Chinese Communist Party.

>> Gilbert Teodoro: Which according to their party documents is part and parcel of their international initiatives, really. And what people should realize is, what's the goal of this?

This is a goal to recreate the international order to be dominated by China because still in party documents, the greatest threat to China is the United States. After you have financed a lot of their technology, after you have financed a lot of their power.

>> H.R. McMaster: Absolutely.

>> Gilbert Teodoro: So it is also a lesson for future leaders that in closed societies, we should really be very perspicacious in what we empower them with.

>> H.R. McMaster: Right.

>> Gilbert Teodoro: Because this can be a force for international coercion.

>> H.R. McMaster: Absolutely and not to assume that we can either change them to be like us or mirror image them to think that they'll behave in the same way. And China certainly has been quite successful at weaponizing its mercantilist statist economic model against us, as well as trying to rewrite the rules of international discourse in a way that favors their authoritarian form of governance.

You mentioned some of the technological means. Could you maybe share with our viewers a little bit about what China did in the Philippines under the offices of a Safe Cities Initiative. And the infusion into the Philippines of communications hardware, for example, for fifth generation communications from Huawei and others?

And because this model applies not just the Philippines, but to many other countries where they're using technological means as well as all these other elements of their strategy to create a servile relationship through co-option and coercion?

>> Gilbert Teodoro: Yes, through the Safe Cities Initiative, China sort of financed a lot of command and control mechanisms for cities where they would install CCTV cameras, they would install facial recognition software.

So, ostensibly to enable a faster reaction time for incident response, secondly, for crime prevention, and thirdly, for social services deployment. So that, for example, a flood would happen, there would be some communications capabilities. They also had a toehold into the third telco in the Philippines which was Huawei financed.

However, we know the costs of this, the cost would be Chinese monitoring and Chinese information gathering. And so the government is well aware of this because the Chinese cannot deny the fact that a lot of the exit points of information illegally gathered had IP addresses in China. That is a fact that they cannot controvert.

I know I'll receive a lot of brickbats over this, but that's the truth and the truth hurts.

>> H.R. McMaster: Well, and now it's so obvious in the United States too, with the penetration of our telecoms, the exfiltration of all this data, the penetration of our Treasury Department most recently.

I mean, it should be obvious to everyone, don't you think, I mean at this stage?

>> Gilbert Teodoro: And what is sad is that we'd like to see an economically robust China as a market for our products, for international trade. Yet the exchanges in technology have undoubtedly resulted in theft of intellectual properties and in improper ways.

We've seen pictures of their next generation fighters which look surprisingly similar to other aircraft that we've seen, even their combat attack helicopters which look surprisingly similar to-

>> H.R. McMaster: Even the last generation, the J20 is the F22, I mean, they look the same for obvious reasons, right?

>> Gilbert Teodoro: Yes, and they diss in the west.

>> H.R. McMaster: And to your earlier point about us underwriting our own demise essentially, through investments in Chinese companies. I mean, two big investments in 2014 went into Chinese companies that now do all their battlefield artificial intelligence and do does the People's Liberation Army's offense to cyber tools. And you mentioned Safe Cities, big US investments went into SenseTime, the company that does a lot of the artificial intelligence based data analytics. And Hikvision, which makes these cameras with the facial identification technology and so forth.

>> Gilbert Teodoro: But also with this Safe Cities Initiative, of course, domestic happenings in the United States are used as a prime example of why the Chinese model is better.

>> H.R. McMaster: Right, yeah.

>> Gilbert Teodoro: Because we really don't know how safe Chinese cities are and we know how safe certain areas in the United States or in the Philippines for that matter are.

>> H.R. McMaster: Are the 1.1 Muslims who are in concentration camps, are they safe? No, I mean, it's obviously hypocritical for them.

>> Gilbert Teodoro: Well, I'd like to share with you that when they started to message about our capability upgrades, it's clearly an interference into the internal affairs of the Philippines.

So I started talk to talk about the human rights situation in China too. So what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander and they accused me with ideological bias, whatever that means.

>> H.R. McMaster: And of course, When we make these criticisms, I think the intention is to advocate for the Chinese people, not against the Chinese people.

I also wanted to ask you about how you and the President have responded to this, because from my perspective it's been with tremendous strength. We saw in August, for example, of this past year, seven acts of war. At least I interpreted them as acts of war, against Philippines Armed Forces as they were trying to resupply Scarborough Shoal, other very direct threats.

But you and the President and your administration, they put in, I think a lot of new policies. The opening warm bases for US capabilities and other allied capabilities, the strength of relationship with Japan, the strengthening of the Philippine Armed Forces broadly. But against the whole range of these threats, can you explain really how you've responded and how President Marcos has responded?

>> Gilbert Teodoro: The first response by the President was a clear cut statement that he would be resolute in not giving in to any of the claims of China in Philippine territory, or in any areas where the Philippines has jurisdiction under international law. The President will not compromise and will be steadfast in that.

Secondly, he has been resolute in trying to build an international alliance on the basis of upholding of international law, freedom of navigation and other important unclosed norms like respecting your EEZ. And most importantly under UNCLOS, is the concept-

>> H.R. McMaster: This is United Nations Conventional Law of the Sea, just for our viewers.

>> Gilbert Teodoro: Yes, it is the concept of an archipelagic country, an archipelagic state where there are five archipelagic states right now. These are states that are composed mostly of islands and not contiguous, one mass of land. So we define our territory, which is really important for us in a security and a defense sense, on the basis of baselines that you draw around the archipelago and project your exclusive economic zone from there.

So the President has been absolutely resolute in not wavering from this concept because a lot of the misinformation coming from advocates of China is that we should manage the conflict. Managing the conflict would mean accepting a status quo where China is in areas where it is not supposed to be.

And this is a red line which the President will not compromise on. Secondly, as we said, alliance building with like minded nations. The President has done a lot of personal diplomacy to secure the archipelagic baselines and other areas of the Philippines. Thirdly, he is committed to re-engineering our defense establishment from an internal security perspective, because we had the local insurgency which is now on a minimal stage.

>> H.R. McMaster: This is the Malawi insurgency again with Abu Sayyaf and Jamaat Islamiya.

>> Gilbert Teodoro: This is the CPP, NPA, NDF-

>> H.R. McMaster: The Communist, right?

>> Gilbert Teodoro: The Communist insurgency.

>> H.R. McMaster: The Communist insurgency, right? The deeper history, yes.

>> Gilbert Teodoro: Right, in terms of the terrorism aspect, although it is minimal and areas are relatively safe, we are still on guard against it because with happenings worldwide, it is fertile ground for resurgence of terrorism once again.

>> H.R. McMaster: Right, and we see it from the Maghreb to the Levant, to Central Asia and South, I mean, absolutely, yeah.

>> Gilbert Teodoro: So this was the crucial internal adjustment that President made is to refocus our defensive operations from internal to territorial defense. And in so doing, we evolved the comprehensive archipelagic defense concept where we would have to project deterrence capabilities throughout our exclusive economic zone in order to deter unwanted behavior from irresponsible actors.

And the President has been fully committed to this. Domestically too, he has been at the forefront of anti UFW operations. Illegal and subversive operations by alien criminal syndicates. He has banned offshore gambling establishments which were laundering money for other purposes and corrupting a lot of people. And in so far as the US presence in the Philippines, we have, of course, now a security sector assistance roadmap.

The important thing with the United States is not merely the strengthening of the bilateral relationship, but the creation of new multilateral ones. We have a trilateral partnership now with Japan, the Philippines and the United States, and a squad with Australia. The Philippines has recently signed a reciprocal access agreement, like a visiting forces agreement with Japan which will allow Japanese Self Defense Forces to train with US and Australian forces for interoperability.

And in terms of the enhanced logistics sites, the EDCA sites, Enhanced Defense Cooperation Agreement sites, these are Philippine bases. Mind you, these are not US bases, although the US will have a logistical presence there. And we are very thankful to the United States because in the hierarchy of threats, the Philippines, the President, considers climate change as the number one threat more than the acts of China.

Our six typhoons in one month, two volcanoes acting up and earthquakes and landslides have really affected our economy and of course our resource base for creating a resilient defense. Therefore, the partnership between allies that the President has personally spearheaded has been vital. But in this, the President has been a voice in ASEAN, in the Indo Pacific for upholding of international law and.

Opposing any attempt by China to distort this narrative. China approaches the problem as a hold the ball strategy where a negotiation is just a tactic in order to weaken the opposite side of the table, aka the Philippines. And hoping that it can generate a more favorable political climate to advance, yet they will not stop their illegal advance.

>> H.R. McMaster: Right, and they'll just mask in this language of a community of common destiny for all humankind and so forth, which ought to scare the heck out of everybody, I think.

>> Gilbert Teodoro: Fortunately it has not gained traction, 90% of the Filipinos do not trust the Chinese government. More than 70 or 80% of the Filipinos support our stand in the West Philippine Sea and South China sea.

More than 80% support the alliance between the United States and the Philippines, and I should say that a lot of our cooperation in disaster response has helped.

>> H.R. McMaster: Yes, right.

>> Gilbert Teodoro: The biggest factor that draws the Filipinos against China is now them, when there was a president that said no, they bear their true inner selves, their fangs.

>> H.R. McMaster: Right, can I ask you, what kind of a reception are you getting in the region broadly? ASEAN is an important organization, but it's based on consensus. Do you see other countries in the region who have come under threat by really China's aggression against their sovereignty? I'm thinking about Vietnam, for example, Malaysia, maybe to a lesser extent Indonesia, maybe the smaller island nations in Oceania.

How's the reception been to kind of a stronger approach by President Marcos relative to President Duterte's policies?

>> Gilbert Teodoro: Well, I think the fact is there is no condemnation of President Marcos's position and no support towards China's position overtly. So all claimant nations, I think it's common sense that they would be worried with China's behavior, and Vietnam has been vocal against China's aggression lesser.

So the other two claimant countries, Malaysia and Brunei, naturally. Indonesia is not a claimant country, although they have a conflict with China. They're further away from the area of contention now in the South China Sea. But then again, I believe that there is a consensus that what China is doing is wrong.

However, expressing this consensus was channeled through the mechanism of trying to negotiate a code of conduct with China. So that is the receptacle for the reservations or the fear that other ASEAN countries have against China's expansionism. However, the Philippines will not play with the same playbook as other countries because the threat to us is real.

And perhaps it will also be useful to explain why it is so important for the Philippines that we have our exclusive economic zones, our territorial sea. Other people say, hey, it's just a portion of sea, why fight over it? The Philippines right now has a growing population, resources are limited, we are a net energy importing country.

The sustainability, not only now, but more importantly of future generations of Filipinos will rely heavily on the amount of resources we can get within the territory or the areas we have rights over that has been granted to us by international law. So for us-

>> H.R. McMaster: And you're talking about fisheries and energy, and-

>> Gilbert Teodoro: Fisheries, energy, habitable areas being supported by the area.

>> H.R. McMaster: And of course, you have a strong manufacturing economy in the Philippines and agricultural economy.

>> Gilbert Teodoro: Yeah, trade routes.

>> H.R. McMaster: Right.

>> Gilbert Teodoro: Being an archipelago, the Philippines, just like a lot of countries, rely on freedom of navigation and interconnections with other countries, both on the Pacific side and on the South China sea side.

So for us, given the fact that we have a growing population, smaller land base for resources, the exclusive economic zone and other areas is an existential necessity for future generations of Filipinos. So if we compromise with China now, we are robbing the future generations of Filipinos of what is rightfully for them to rely on for their survival in a more volatile world.

>> H.R. McMaster: Right, I'd like to ask you a question about the connection between this competition with China and having to counter Chinese aggression in your region Indo-Pacific, and maybe other conflicts in the world. What do you see as the implications, for example, of Russian aggression against Ukraine, or the war in the Middle east, for example, for your concerns, for your own security, for the Philippines security?

Do you see connections between these kind of cascading conflicts and the looming crises in the Indo-Pacific?

>> Gilbert Teodoro: Sure, on the part of any bigger country doing an act of aggression or committing an act of aggression against a smaller country. It is worrisome if this is legitimized by acquiescence, silence, non-condemnation or non-action by the international organizations of the world.

It is worrisome for us because if the world does nothing and we see smaller countries being swallowed up by bigger countries for whatever reason, naturally all smaller countries should worry. It should not be the case if it shows Either that the world order truly needs to be strengthened as to its original intention, that was a mechanism to avoid conflict, avoid war.

And if countries take a step back and let things be, then the narrative by China then works.

>> H.R. McMaster: Sure.

>> Gilbert Teodoro: And things need to be changed on a more parochial and domestic sense. The Philippines is a net importer of energy, and the Philippines has citizens, deployed, nationals all over the world.

So energy security is vital to our viability as a competitor, as an international competitive entity. And so the war in Ukraine has affected us through world commodity prices. The Red Sea, Persian Gulf instability affects us a lot. Let us not forget there are more than 20 Philippinos held hostage by the Houthis, and international shipping costs have increased the cost of goods that we need, for our daily survival a lot.

So, all of these conflicts affect the Philippines because we're an archipelagic country, and we need a lot of inputs to make our economy more viable and to give more social services to our people. But in the bigger international sense, since we are facing aggression by a bigger power, namely China, who is flexing its muscle and trying to distort the international narrative to justify its doing so, mirror acts in other places of the world are a matter of concern for us.

>> H.R. McMaster: Teodore I think that's an important point because, there are some who make the argument that we should prioritize the competition with China in the Indo Pacific. And the way to do that is to almost forget about or deprioritize conflicts elsewhere. And of course, there are so many connections, as we see with North Koreans, fighting alongside, for example, Russians in Ukraine and China providing, the equipment and hardware that Russia needs to continue its onslaught.

Or the fact that, China's buying 97% of Iran's oil to keep them kind of in the game in their aggression across the region. I'd like to ask you, what are your expectations as a new American administration comes in, for the US Philippine relationship? And how do you see trends in the relationship in recent years, which I could be quite positive.

And what are your expectations for the coming years?

>> Gilbert Teodoro: Well, my expectation is that the momentum that is existing at present be continued because we are not only strengthening a relationship, but evolving a new ecosystem of security, not only bilaterally, but also multilaterally with other countries with shared values, like Japan, like Australia.

And the United States has made a lot of inroads also in Asian in advocacy, in building trust and confidence. So we would like to see the momentum continue, that our joint activities continue, the resilience building of the Philippines as not only a partner of the United States, but as a major upholder and enforcer of international norms.

That's what this is in the Philippines right now. The world will not listen to us if we stand up and say, hey this is Philippine territory, plain and simple. But we have a basis for it, which basis we all share, those are the rules based international order. And so the Philippines now, as I view it, is a test case of, how far smaller countries can go on a sustainable basis in standing up for themselves.

And if this momentum is not sustained, then a counter narrative wins, which the world cannot afford, because then there will be only 2 to 3 strong autocratic, undemocratic survivors.

>> H.R. McMaster: Secretary Teodoro, you're talking about kind of really an optimistic perspective among our democracies, I think we've seen that in the US Philippine relationship.

But in our democracies, of course, oftentimes we're it's ugly, right? Cuz we're open societies and we have our divisions in the United States, you always came to a contentious election, but I think in pretty good shape everybody, there were no questions about the result of our presidential election.

In the Philippines, you have your own issues politically between the president and the vice president and the contention between them. But these authoritarian regimes, they look strong from the outside, but I think they're actually quite brittle. Could you maybe share with our viewers your perspective of really the Philippine democratic experience, and maybe your confidence in it, even though you see the contention as between your president and vice president come to the surface and is readily available for anybody to see?

>> Gilbert Teodoro: I think to go down to the basic human level, Philippinos and Americans enjoy the same things. We can say what we want without any fear that will disappear at night. We can publish what we want. We can do basically what we want, just as long as we don't violate laws which are enacted by elected representatives.

I'm not saying that these laws may be wise or maybe economically correct or be efficient, but what I'm saying is that, these laws were passed through a process. A process as everybody knows, that if everybody has a beef with what has been passed, it's the system. Whereas with China, we really don't know what's happening.

There's no room for dissent in China, and do we see this in China alone? No, we saw it in Hong Kong where they promised.

>> H.R. McMaster: Sure.

>> Gilbert Teodoro: They promised something and did another, we saw it in Mischief Reef they went back on their word, and now they distort the narrative that the Philippines is going back on its word.

And we've seen history too, the purges, can we forget that? Can we forget the 45 million who died because of experiments in China through the Great Leap Forward etc, which they are trying to gloss over now? And trying to snow peak or white out-

>> H.R. McMaster: Or to give the party the credit for everything.

>> Gilbert Teodoro: Yes.

>> H.R. McMaster: And to blame everything on the so called central of humiliation.

>> Gilbert Teodoro: Yes.

>> H.R. McMaster: Yes.

>> Gilbert Teodoro: So we have our beefs with societies, there are costs to this but, But the basic, the immutable is freedom. We have the liberty to do things that people in China unfortunately cannot.

And in other societies, too. I mean, in certain countries, we've seen billionaires lose it overnight because they went against the powers that be. Now, given the fact that there is a new administration in the United States, I feel that the interests remain the same. We have built our relationship to this day not on ad hoc responses to threats, but we've built an institutional foundation for going forward with our relationship, not only bilaterally, multilaterally.

 

Like we have a Philippine security sector assistance roadmap. We recently have passed the general secrecy of military information agreement, which necessitated institutional adjustments that we made in our system. Which makes our system a more credible system, a more transparent system, but at the same time, paradoxically, a more operationally secure system.

Now, having said that, the interests remain the same. There is a momentum, and I think that it would be very difficult for any person to break that momentum now. And the constant that we face and which is not of our doing is China is behaving the way it does.

The only way probably that our momentum will go somewhere else if China changes its behavior.

>> H.R. McMaster: Sure.

>> Gilbert Teodoro: I mean, if China didn't do what it is doing now, not only in the West Philippine Sea, but in the Sea of Japan or in the East Sea for that matter, there would be no need for all of these alliance-building mechanisms.

>> H.R. McMaster: Or even the trend even in Cambodia, right, which has been under Hansen, was, you could say you had a servile relationship with China. Cambodia saw the recent visits by the Japanese and, and U.S. government officials, military visits as well, which would have been unthinkable. So I think the trend seems to be in a positive direction. Thank you, Xi Jinping, right? We should send him flowers and a box of chocolates for making it clear-

>> Gilbert Teodoro: A lot of what we have been doing, it's because of their actions which threaten the territorial integrity and sovereignty of our country.

>> H.R. McMaster: Right. So, Secretary, what I'd like to ask you for the final question here for our viewers is, what else should our viewers know about the Philippines, and what should they know about the Philippine-US relationship?

>> Gilbert Teodoro: Well, the Philippines right now is at the forefront of upholding international norms. And this is not an empty phrase, international norms. But if we fail to uphold what is written down in the United Nations Charter, the treaties right now, we stand the risk of having these norms, which we guarantee our way of life, our freedom, resources for the future, particularly of the smaller countries.

We stand the risk of having this redefined by active coercive actions by more powerful countries and by acquiescence by equally, if not more, powerful countries too. Therefore, we lose by default or inaction. How important is the Philippines to the United States? It's not merely a treaty ally, not merely a treaty partner, but it is at the forefront in the westernmost area of the Pacific Ocean in enforcing freedom of navigation and other rights that were there for a long, long time and just concretized by the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea.

Billions of dollars of trade go through the South China Sea, from the Indian Ocean, up the South China Sea, and exiting to the Pacific Ocean. If China's narrative that almost all of this is its internal waters, then it would have closed off a vital shipping channel of which US livelihoods depend, Canadian livelihoods depend, and other Pacific-facing countries rely on.

And it will also disrupt and distort world prices of all commodities. And translated, that means more dollars for X quantity of X goods. But more importantly than that, there is an attempt to reshape the world as we know it. Our world is an imperfect world. Definitely, it's full of crises because it treats states as individual actors.

And unfortunately, the good faith that we show other states by embracing their opening up has been irresponsibly managed and taken advantage of by these states. You see violations of international protection, etc. And you've seen also the subversion of the US economy by China. Now China is an active attempt, as its documents show, and they're not hiding it, of reshaping the world order.

And if we do not stand up, the United States does not stand up with the Philippines in upholding the UN Charter, the UN Convention of the Law of the Sea. And mind you, not only the United States is supporting the Philippines here, the G7 is supporting it, the EU is supporting it.

Several non-EU countries, like the United Kingdom is supporting it. New Zealand for a long, long time, has laid back from international military engagements. They now want a Status of Forces agreement with us, which we are negotiating because they see the danger posed to them far away as they are by China's actions in the South China Sea.

So if New Zealand alone feels that they are threatened, more so should the United States. And the focal point, the fulcrum of all of this, is the Philippines. And I think by our actions internationally, we have proven our good faith, our responsibility as an ally, and we will be resolute by not looking for conflict.

But we will not back down from any attempt to subvert our country and to take away any part of any of our territory or any area where we have sovereign rights from us, because these do not belong to us physically now, but for the survival of our future generations.

And so to join with the Philippines means to join in upholding a world of norms, of freedoms, and a way of life which respects everybody's way of life and without reintroducing a new narrative or an Orwellian narrative of a world of the future.

>> H.R. McMaster: Well, Mr Gilbert Teodoro, I can't thank you enough for your leadership at this critical moment.

>> Gilbert Teodoro: Thank you.

>> H.R. McMaster: And for your visit and for joining us on Battlegrounds to help us understand better a battleground that's critical to all of our futures. Thank you so much.

>> Gilbert Teodoro: Well, I thank you for giving us the opportunity to articulate our position, and hopefully we make an impact because the world needs it.

>> H.R. McMaster: Well, you are making an impact. What a pleasure to be with you. Thank you so much.

>> Gilbert Teodoro: Thank you.

>> Presenter: Battlegrounds is a production of the Hoover Institution, where we generate and promote ideas, advancing freedom. For more information about our work, to hear more of our podcasts or view our video content, please visit hoover.org.