Belarus: Opposition and the Fight for Freedom

>> H.R. McMaster: America and other free and open societies face crucial challenges and opportunities abroad that affect security and prosperity at home. This is a series of conversations with guests who bring deep understanding of today's battlegrounds. And creative ideas about how to compete, overcome challenges, capitalize on opportunities, and secure a better future.

I am HR McMaster, this is Battlegrounds.
>> Narrator: On today's episode of Battlegrounds, our focus is on Belarus, a nation at the center of geopolitical tensions in Eastern Europe. Our guest, Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya, is the national leader of Belarus and head of the United Transitional Cabinet. Independent observers determined that Tsikhanouskaya won the Belarusian presidential election on August 9, 2020, defeating the Long standing dictator Alexander Lukashenko.

Tsikhanouskaya entered the presidential race after Lukashenko's regime arrested her husband for declaring his own candidacy. The regime forced her into exile, but she inspired mass peaceful protests through throughout Belarus in response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Tsikhanouskaya launched an anti-war movement to prevent Belarus involvement and led underground resistance efforts against Russian troops.

She has advocated for the release of over 1,500 political prisoners and free and fair elections, earning her numerous international awards and two Nobel Peace Prize nominations. Slavic tribes first settled Belarus between the 6th and 8th centuries AD. By the 9th century, Belarus was part of the Kavian Rus, the first East Slavic state before Mongol invasions devastated it.

The Grand Duchy of Lithuania absorbed Belarus in 13th and 14th centuries. And in the 16th century, it became part of the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth until the Russian Empire gradually annexed its eastern territories under Catherine the great. In the 20th century, Belarus endured German occupation in World War I after its brief existence as the Belarusian Soviet Socialist Republic, Belarus emerged as a founding republic of the Soviet Union in 1922.

The country endured Stalinist purges in the 1930s and Nazi occupation during World War II. In 1986, the Chernobyl nuclear disaster contaminated one-fifth of the country causing lasting environmental and health damage to Belarus population. The United States established diplomatic relations with Belarus shortly after it declared independence from the Soviet Union on August 25, 1991.

Three years later, the country fell under the authoritarian rule of Lukashenko, who repressed opposition, changed the constitution to consolidate power and kept the country closely aligned with Russia. Belarusians protested unfair elections in 2006, 2010 and 2020 and Lukashenko imprisoned many opposition leaders. Following the fraudulent 2006 presidential election, the US imposed sanctions and travel restrictions on Belarusian officials and state owned entities.

Lukashenko's regime expelled the US ambassador in 2008, there are over 1,400 political prisoners in Belarusian prisons. The United States has provided over $1 billion in assistance to to Belarusian civil society organization since 1992 to support democratic development and human rights. Following Belarus support of Russia's 2022 reinvasion of Ukraine, the US enacted further sanctions and suspended embassy operations.

We welcome Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya to discuss the Belarusian opposition, her fight for freedom, and the importance of countering Russian aggression in Europe.
>> H.R. McMaster: Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya, welcome to Battlegrounds. What an honor it is to see you again, thank you so much for joining us.
>> Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya: Hello everybody, thank you for your attention to Belarus and to our fight for freedom of my country.

>> H.R. McMaster: Well, Sviatlana, we've heard a little bit about yours and your family's brave story. The struggle that you've been engaged in, the hardships that you've encountered. But can you share more about yours and your husband Sergey's struggle for freedom and liberty?
>> Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya: Look, it's such interesting story, I have to say, because I was ordinary person, ordinary woman, living in Belarus in my small family, bringing up two wonderful children.

But when in 2019, my husband decided to fight against dictatorship, he was immediately jailed by Lukashenko's regime. And just to show my love to my husband, first of all, I stepped in, I started to fight against dictatorship as well, I became presidential candidate. I was fighting to dictate on the elections and according to all the counts, I won these elections but of course, Lukashenko didn't allow free and fair elections.

So after fraud and elections, he unleashed the most brutal terror our country has seen for decades. And I had to flee Belarus because of repressions and continue my fight in exile at the moment. My husband is still in jail since 2020, and for two years he's kept in incommunicado mode, I haven't heard about him anything, I don't know if he's alive.

And of course it's extremely difficult to live, to work, not knowing what's happening to your beloved one. But of course my story is not unique because we have thousands of political prisoners in Belarus and it's suffering of thousands of families. And since 2020, at least half a million of Belarusians had to flee Belarus because of tyranny in our country.

But I'm so proud of Belarusian people who, despite all these repressions, not giving up. We continue to fight in Belarus, mostly underground, of course, in exile we can be more active. For these five years we managed to build democratic institutions in exile, our movement is as united as never before and we actually rediscovered maybe Belarus to the world.

Now democratic world understands the difference between Lukashenko's regime and people who want peace, who want independence of our country. So it's not the easy path, I have never intended to be a politician, but when life puts you in such circumstances, where you have to fight, where you have to sacrifice.

We're just doing this because we are responsible for all those who are behind the bars, who are relying on us. We are responsible for the future of Belarus, we want to be reliable partners for our neighbors, for peace and security in the region. But it's impossible to be good partners while Lukashenko is in power.

>> H.R. McMaster: Sviatlana, I think one of the ways we can think about how to advocate for freedom is to start with, understanding better the nature of the Stalinist Lukashenko regime and the mechanisms the regime uses to maintain their grip on power. You've mentioned political prisoners, the brutal repression, your husband being kept incommunicado for years.

Could you describe some of the other tactics that, how does the regime stay in power? How does the regime repress freedom and repress the movement for democracy and liberty?
>> Narrator: Only Lukashenko's aim is to stay in power. He doesn't let Belarusian people to choose our future by ourselves.

We are European nation, we want to be part of this democratic society. But Lukashenko was the person who always dragged our country back into the Soviet Union past. And he is not respected and is not supported by Belarusian people. But he has some military apparatus who is loyal to him, and he has support of Putin.

I think if not Putin's support, in 2020 we for sure would win this fight, would win our country back. But since 2020, our country became like Gulag, people live under constant pressure. All their media, for example, have been ruined since 2020. They managed to recover their broadcasting from exile, but nevertheless, all the NGOs have been closed.

All the political parties who are opposing Lukashenko, they were liquidated. So Lukashenko is erasing our national identity. He hates everything Belarusian. He doesn't want our country, our nation, to live normally. They want to be us under shadow of Russian empire. So people don't understand the rules. People can be detained for opposing Lukashenko, it's understandable.

But people are detained for speaking Belarusian language, or for reading Belarusian books, or for supporting Ukrainians for singing Ukrainian songs, or for praising European perspectives for our country, for commenting on different media. So you just living under constant waiting when you are detained. So people, when they go to war, for example, they have to take this special bag where extra socks, toothbrush is located.

Just in case you are detained at your work, you have something to survive in prison. So it's like really Stalin's time repression. People don't know how to survive. And of course they cannot openly show their views. But again, five years passed since 2020. But the level of repression shows that Lukashenko is afraid of Belarusian people.

He still behaves as if hundreds of thousands stand in front of his palace. He knows that as only he stops repressions, people will be on the streets again. People will show their opinion openly. So that's why support of Putin and repressions is his only instruments.
>> H.R. McMaster: Sviatlana, can you talk a little bit more about that, about Vladimir Putin and the degree to which Russia has endeavored to keep the Belarusian people down.

There's kind of this misunderstanding these days I think that some people still think what Putin needs is his security concerns to be allayed. And that really, if Putin feels more secure, he'll stop his aggression. But his aggression against Belarus fits a broader pattern. And could you maybe explain how do you view Putin's motives and the mechanisms he uses to support somebody like a dictator who's going to act kind of like a puppet of Moscow, like Lukashenko.

>> Narrator: General McMaster, you know that Belarus has historically been a battleground between east and west, from Napoleonic wars to both World Wars and Belarus has been at the heart of conflicts. And Russia has consistently tried to control Belarusian, Ukrainian and even Polish territories because controlling Belarus means controlling European security.

Therefore, Belarus is so important now. Whoever controls Belarus controls the gateway to Europe. Russia understands it well and that's why they trying to dominate fully on Belarus. If the west let this happen, it could destabilize the entire region. Without Belarus, Putin will not be able to take over Ukraine and attack Baltic states, for example, but also vice versa.

If Belarus is free, it would be a critical leverage against Putin. And of course, we all know that Russia tries to recover the imperialistic borders. They're threatening Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia, and all the other countries, they want to restore its empire. And in our case, you know, Lukashenko became a lie to Putin.

He doesn't take care about Belarusian nation, about Belarusian national identity, he's just serving to Putin interests. And that's why Lukashenko is selling our country piece by piece to Russia in exchange of his power. And what we see in Belarus is creeping occupation. If in Ukraine, Russia deal with tanks, with this open war in Belarus, it's like silent war.

We see the process of Russification. We see how Russia interferes in all the spheres of our life, into education, military, our media sphere. So they just silently taking our country. And of course, Belarusian people resist it. We don't want to be in the grip of Russia, but it's difficult to fight when we are alone.

So that's why it's support and solidarity of democratic world is critically important for us. But I don't want our democratic partners to look on Belarus as on humanitarian case where repression is taking place and political prisoners. We have to understand that independent Belarus is the core, like the core element of stability and security of the whole region.

That is why it's so important to get Belarus out of Russia's grip. And this what we are trying to explain to new Trump's administration and to our Western partners.
>> H.R. McMaster: Sviatlana, I think that's a really incredibly important points that you've made. One of is that Putin is really engaged in trying to restore the Russian Empire.

And you mentioned this, what I would call like a shadow war, the cognitive warfare against your country, but also various forms of aggression cutting undersea cables in the Baltic Sea. You're burning down warehouses, putting out assassination hits on heads of industry in Europe. And this effort really to not only dominate Eastern Europe, but southeastern Europe, the Black Sea, the Baltic region.

And it's just kind of my perspective, Putin won't stop until he is stopped. And I just admire what you're doing and the opposition's doing. I want to talk more about what can be done to support these sort of freedom and liberty movements. But could you describe for our viewers the state of opposition to Belarus, what the opposition has accomplished?

And what is feasible, even under Lukashenko, to tilt Belarus away, even only maybe in some ways from Russia?
>> Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya: Of course, we understand that now Lukashenko seized power, he's controlling Belarus through repressions. But Belarusian people, we want different future. And we don't have as democratic society, we don't have to allow dictators think that they can dictate other countries.

You know how to live, where to go, you know where to remain. And this is why it's so important to take this to fold the approach regarding Belarus. On the one hand, to weaken the regime through sanctions, through economic pressure, through political pressure, but on the other hand, to help Belarusian people to live through these difficult times.

This is why it's so important to strengthen agency of democratic forces, to support Belarusian media who are countering Russian and Belarusian regime propaganda to show solidarity. Because believe me, it's so difficult to fight if you feel that you are alone. No one war and no one fights and the world cannot be one when you are alone.

We need democratic wall to show Belarusian people that we are supporting you, we are with you. Our doors are open for all your initiatives because we are fighting one enemy. We have to understand that a fight in Belarus or war in Ukraine is not only our local problems, it's a global fight against tyranny.

Because tyranny is like cancer. It will spread further and further until it is ruined by the last cell. And if you will not help Belarus people to save our country, to return independence to Belarus, Belarus will be constant round for Russia to attack other countries. And if we allow Russia, for example, to control Belarus, it will be source of constant threat and blackmailing for all our democratic partners.

We already see Aria Snik in Belarus, we see deployment of nuclear weapon. We see how Belarusian regime is preparing for Zapat 2025 drills. It is like blackmailing and threatening the world. So that's why democratic world has teeth. You have power and you have tools to fight with dictators.

Dictators don't respect democracy because they think that democratic world is sometimes non-principled or hesitate. And they take this hesitation as weakness. And if you are weak they can cross red line after red line like challenging you. What can you do? We don't respect any international rules and laws, so you're weak enough to respond us.

But I believe in democracy, I believe in democratic world that you will find solution. You know how to fight with dictators. We just have to understand that dictators cannot be appeased, they dictators cannot be re-educated. Dictators can only be fought and you are powerful enough to fight with dictators.

So this is what you have to understand. Dictators will not stop until we stop them.
>> H.R. McMaster: Sviatlana, you made so many important points here. I think, I agree completely with your assessment that dictators won't stop until they are stopped. And I think there's a deep skepticism though in the United States these days.

You probably have seen what's happened with USAID and the reduction of funding programs that are meant to support democracy movements like yours. Media as you mentioned and other means of countering the mechanisms of authoritarian state control, the dominance of the media, the propaganda and so forth. And I think you've talked a lot about to Americans and others about why it's important to support people like you, movements like yours.

This isn't just like your democracy promotion and trying to export American Jeffersonian democracy in places that don't want representative government. Can you talk more to the American people about the argument for supporting movements like yours and why it's in America's interest? You've touched on a lot of these points, but I'd just like to ask you to address that skepticism about what some people call democracy promotion abroad.

>> Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya: No, I fully understand that independency and sovereignty of Belarus is Belarus and duty, Belarus and people duty. It's us who have to return our country back to people. And this is Ukrainian issue as well. But as I said before, no one fight and no one war cannot be won if you are fighting alone.

And that's why showing your solidarity or giving assistance to people who are on the front line of the fight against tyranny is critically important for us. Believe me, when people think that they are abandoned or when they see that some democratic countries might say that, it's not our business, it's their problems, it gives us feeling of loneliness and it decreases our morale.

And for example, cut and support to Radio Free Europe harms independent voices, not just in Belarus, but across the whole region. Their work of free media is incredibly important for us. And you know that some of journalists, many actually journalists, are held as political prisoners and authoritarian regimes watching closely.

And if democratic countries stop helping each other, dictators will celebrate. Free media that are ruined will immediately be replaced by propagandistic messages. And believe me, this media, for example, free media is extremely important because propaganda is very, very easily poisoning the minds of people of free countries. They say, look, you have to live your lives, just you live in wonderful democratic countries.

Why do you have to care about Ukraine, Belarus, or Moldova? And they want to stop people thinking about solidarity. They spread these narratives about fatigue, so on and so forth. But if not help those who are fighting fearlessly now against dictators. Dictators will knock your doors very soon because they will think that you are not able to help each other.

You just concentrate on your, maybe domestic issues, just about your comfortable lives, about price on the petrol, so price on the products. And just don't pay attention to other countries. So the dictators will come to you and you will feel loneliness then if you don't help each other.

So it's extremely important to fuel nations who are fighting with the energy cuz we are like battery on the cell phone. If we are not being recharged with the empathy, with the assistance we will turn off. And if we lose our countries, who knows who will be next.

I think the democratic world has opportunity to help each other, but it's more like political message. We will not leave the countries who want to be democratic alone because they belong to our family, to democratic family. So that's why I ask people to contribute some of the time, energy, maybe money to those who are fighting.

Because again, we are not just fighting for ourselves, we are fighting for the values that your countries are based on. And dictators, they want to undermine values to make people selfish, to not to deliver the empathy to other people. And it's very dangerous for the world, actually. And we see how dictators unite now.

They are learning from each other, they helping each other. So must democratic countries do the same. They have to show the unity that dictators cannot break this unity and principality. And democratic world has to show consistency regarding tyrants, that we will not give up, that yes, we are going through difficult times, you are undermining our principles, but we are staying strong and only helping each other and explaining how it's important to stand shoulder to shoulder with each other, country with country.

They will make sure that dictators will be defeated.
>> H.R. McMaster: Sviatlana, you've covered so many important points here. And I think the making the argument to Americans about, this is support for you and your people. It's not some sort of foreign effort to cultivate democracy where nobody wants it.

And then the other point you just made is how this axis of aggressors is working together so closely. And this is Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, I mean, North Koreans are fighting on European soil providing artillery, Iran is providing missiles, and China is underwriting essentially Russia's war. And I think it's so important to understand what is at stake in Belarus and in Ukraine as well.

And would you share your thoughts about the war in Ukraine, what your view is of the war at this moment and how important it is to support the Ukrainians in their fight against this continued Russian onslaught against them.
>> Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya: So first of all, let me explain to viewers about attitude of Belarusian people towards the war in Ukraine.

You know that Belarusian people is not Russian people. In Belarus, only 5% of citizens support this war and support unity of Russia and Belarus. Since the very first days of the war, when the first missiles have been launched from our territory. It was awful moment for us because we have never fought with the Ukrainians, with very close nations, we have very similar language, and we opposing the same enemy.

Though our country was already two years under constant repressions, Belarusian people went to the streets to show their anti-war moods. Many have been detained. Immediately, Belarusian volunteers went to fight to Ukraine shoulder to shoulder with Ukrainians. Because we know that defending Ukraine means defending Belarus as well. And actually Belarusian regiment of Kalinovsky is the biggest international regiment fighting in Ukraine at the moment.

Belarusian partisans disrupted railways in Belarus to slow down Russian equipment going to Ukraine. There were many acts of sabotage in Belarus. And actually till now, people from Belarus, even from the closest circle of Lukashenko, they providing us information how for example sanctions are circumvented or how Lukashenko militarized our economy to earn money on this war.

At least 187 Belarusian enterprises now producing military stuff for Russian war. So Lukashenko is earning money on the blood of Ukrainians. And there were some conversation that look, Lukashenko is partially in the war. He didn't allow Belarusian army to join Russian army. It's not the merit of Lukashenko, he knew that Belarusian soldiers would never fight Ukrainians.

They would escape, they would hide, they would change the side, but they will never kill Ukrainians. And they don't want to be killed by Ukrainians because as I said, we are close nations. And of course, we understand that the fate of Ukraine and Belarus intertwined. Without free Ukraine, there will be no free Belarus, but also vice versa.

Without free Belarus, independent Belarus, there will be no stability and peace and security in Ukraine. Because Belarus at any moment, while Lukashenko is there, can be used as launching pad for attacking Ukraine again. It's thousands kilometer border with Ukraine. So that's why we need both our countries to get out of this war.

And also including Moldova and Georgia and Armenia, we just want to live our peaceful lives without these imperialistic ambitions of Russia. And that's why we really advocate so much as political structures as people as nation that the democratic world has to give Ukraine everything they need to win this war.

Because if Ukraine loses, it will not be loss of Ukraine, it will be loss of all democratic world. It will show it's not possibility to confront dictators. And it will embolden regimes and they will think that, okay, if you are not able to defend Ukraine and Belarus, we will go further.

Who knows, maybe we will not defend NATO countries as well because now I live in Lithuania, these Baltic countries, and they really scared here just in case Russia will try to attack them. Will they be protected or not? It's very difficult for me to see that countries doubt, countries who are close to Russia doubt that they might be secured by the NATO allies.

It's difficult for me to see because NATO alliance is very strong, powerful, but these doubts are now very painful.
>> H.R. McMaster: They're painful and dangerous. I mean, Sviatlana, as you said earlier, right, it's the perception of weakness that emboldens Vladimir Putin. And I think we're at a critical moment now.

I think in Moscow, Putin might feel an alleviation of pressure because there have been many in the United States who have bought into his propaganda. You know that there are Russian speakers in Ukraine that want to be part of Russia, all these false pretenses for the onslaught against Ukraine that began in 2014, and then vastly intensified in 2022.

But I think these authoritarian regimes, they look strong from the outside, Svitlana, but they're actually quite brittle, right? And our democracies look ugly, they look weak sometimes. But actually I think we're more resilient than people think. Could you give us some, some optimism, some hope for a more optimistic future?

How do you see the future of Belarus, and how do you see the future of our democracies relative to what I would call this axis of aggressors, right, this axis of authoritarians with Russia at the vanguard of it now, backed by China, backed by North Korea and by Iran.

>> Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya: Yeah, of course, this club of dictators, they want dictatorship to spread over all over the world. But I truly believe that while democratic countries, understand the meaning of democracy, importance of democracy, they will not allow dictators to spread their narratives and the influence all over the world.

But returning to Belarus, obviously Russia will try everything to prevent changes in Belarus. It needs Belarus to blackmail the West. You know that without Belarus and Ukraine, Putin would never be able to restore his empire. And as I said, only Belarusians, of course, can bring change, but we need allies.

And I really think that Belarus is the weakest link in Putin's strategy because Lukashenko is weak. Lukashenko doesn't enjoy support of Belarusian people. And if necessary, Belarusian people would fight like partisans. Or if there will be open war, Belarusian will defend Belarus and the security in the whole region.

So I really see bravery and courage of Belarusians and Ukrainians. And I truly believe that Belarus and Ukraine will be free. Maybe we need more principality and decisiveness of democratic world. And I'm so grateful to our democratic partners that despite all challenges, they continue to support Ukraine. They continue to contribute into this fight with weapon and humanitarian stuff.

It really inspires people to continue the fight. So I believe that Belarus will feel this new wind of opportunity that will take place in Belarus and get rid of the regime. And sometimes, General, I hear that Belarus is lost case, that until anything changes in Russia, nothing will change in Belarus.

But I think that changes in Russia will start from the changes in my country because our society is more consolidated. Belarusian nation is fully anti-Putin and anti anti-Lukashenko. And I remember in 2020 when our prize and took place, resistance started in Russia as well. So it might be example for Russian people, how to fight with their tyranny if they need this.

Of course, we have to divide Belarus and Russia because we have different contexts. But nevertheless, I think that changes in Belarus are more possible than the changes in Russia. But again, we need to feel solidarity of other countries. And it shouldn't be only words of support or words of condemnation.

It should be real actions like strongest sanctions on Lukashenko's regime to weaken him economically. Because sanctions are really effective instruments if it doesn't have loopholes, if there are no venues for circumventing sanctions. But also strong morale of people is the biggest weapon against dictatorship. And I see now how European Union is intensifying the military defense system.

But also I have to say that weapon is useless if people are not ready to defend their lands, to defend their principles. So that's why we have to explain to people who have been enjoying democracy and peace for so long time that they forgot how to fight with dictators.

And we as people who are face to face to these dictators, we really can explain to people how to deal with dictators, how to not to believe them, not to trust them. Because sometimes I also still now hear some talks that maybe we have to make deal with Putin because we don't want escalation.

But it doesn't work like this with dictators. As only you show weakness, it means that you can be attacked by dictators, they stop respecting you. So you have to be ready to defend yourself if necessary. Of course, we all want peace. We don't want any war in Europe and behind, we have to live in peace, but to prepare to the war, because the times now are really difficult and not understandable.

And that's why we don't have to close our eyes and ears. I don't want to hear and say anything. We have to look openly on the threats we are facing and prepare for possible escalation. Not because we want escalation, but because dictators want to subjugate you, to ruin your principles, to ruin your values and govern in the world.

>> H.R. McMaster: Sviatlana, there's so much wisdom in what you said, and I know that our viewers appreciate it deeply. Especially deterrence comes from capability times will, right. And it's important, I think, for us to recognize that Putin really is, and these other dictators are trying to affect our will.

By dividing us further, pitting us against each other, trying to break Europe apart, the transatlantic relationship, but also within societies. And I do think you've given us a lot of reason for optimism as well, right? I mean, I think that these regimes really are weak, I mean, they fear their own people.

That's not a sign of weakness and I just have great respect for what you're doing. I think our viewers will also recognize that what people sometimes disparage as democracy promotion is not alien to you, to your organization, the Belarusian National Resistance. It's what you're endeavoring to do and you deserve the support of us across the free world.

Sviatlana, you've talked before about the constant everyday work you're doing. I'm gonna ask you to see if you have any final words for our viewers and maybe describe what your priorities are for you and your organization in the near future.
>> Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya: Look, of course our final aim of our fight is first of all to release political prisoners from prisons and to hold free and fair elections in Belarus.

We really want democratization of Belarus all through peaceful processes, we don't want wars, we don't want any civic fight. We want free and fair elections in Belarus but to get to this point, we need to weaken the regime and strengthen the people. And we are trying to strengthen agents of democratic forces to rediscover Belarus to different parts of the world.

Because for too long Belarus was gray zone, like appendix of Russia or what Belarus is about. And after 2020, we got this chance to be on international arena to show that Lukashenko's regime and Belarusian people are two different things. That we don't want to be in the sphere of influence of Russia.

We want to become European democratic country that respects international values and to be part of this wonderful democratic world. And I'm so glad that we really found so many good friends all over the world that we saw solidarity of American people. Our American diaspora, they are really trying hard to keep Belarus han agenda in your country.

And we are really looking for people who are uniting in both our countries, we already have our common heroes in our history. I know General McMaster, that you graduated from West Point. It's an academy that was actually established by Tadeusz Stucka, a prominent figure born in Belarus. And Kostiuszka is a hero for Belarusians, for Poles, for Lithuanians and American allies.

He was one who fought not only for American freedom, but also for free Belarus. And we now want these heroes not just to fight for the freedom of all the countries. And of course these heroes are as ordinary people, but also high ranked politicians who have to inspire nations that we are on the side of good, that we are fighting for light side of our history.

That we must stay principled and strong against this axis of evil so we need these strong voices that will promote everything good in this world. So I really want to believe that democratic countries will not be poisoned by these dictators narratives, that everybody have to stay in the frames of their country.

But democratic countries will have to protect each other that you will not leave alone those who are fighting against tyrants. But also huge contribution into this fight of ordinary people. Don't let dictators put yourself into this shell of not knowing, not wanting to understand anything in this life concentrated on families or well-being because we really can take Belarus as a good example.

How people losing attention or interest in politics brought countries to dictatorship. When they think what can an ordinary person do while dictator is ruling who I am? But when you see that you are not alone, that there are millions and hundreds of thousands of people around you who think the same, you can ruin the walls.

You can influence the policy of your countries and make sure that your government stand firmly with the values that are so cherished by your countries. Believe me, it's so easy to lose what you have and it's so difficult to get it back.
>> H.R. McMaster: Thank you so much for that reference to the American Revolution which the historian R.R Palmer called the beginning of the age of democratic revolution.

And maybe we need another age of democratic revolution now to counter these authoritarians, including Lukashenko. My colleague here, Stephen Kotkin, who's a scholar of the Soviet Union in the Stalin, he says that these regimes need five things to stay in power. We've talked a lot about this cash flow and the importance of sanctions relevant to that cash flow.

Security forces, they need security forces as tools of repression we can sanction them, we can try to weaken them. The third thing they need is control over life choices, you've talked about that, right? And the importance of people having to free themselves from the oppression of that regime and the control over those life choices.

The fourth thing they need are stories to tell their people lies, to tell their people. And we've talked about the importance of communication, radio for Europe, other ways to reach people with the truth and alternative sources of information. And the fifth thing they need is they need an international system that's complacent, that doesn't really care.

And you joining me on Battlegrounds, I hope will reach a lot of our viewers and, and listeners and inspire them to support you, to support your movement. So I can't thank you enough on behalf of the Hoover Institution for being with us and I'd like to just give you the final word to our viewers.

>> Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya: Thank you General McMaster for giving me this opportunity to tell more about Belarus. And I ask your viewers to support all those who fighting for their freedoms, for their independency. And just the last word I have to say you listed five points and just I have only one point to let evil to blossom good people have do nothing.

So I ask citizens of all the countries, be good people and contribute small part of your life five, ten minutes to the fight on maybe on the other continent, in the other countries. But it will be your contribution into democracy and into better life for the whole world.

>> H.R. McMaster: Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya, it is such a privilege to have been with you and thank you for your courage. Thank you for your family's courage and especially your husband who's enduring prison, it was wonderful to be with you.
>> Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya: Thank you.
>> Narrator: Battlegrounds is a production of the Hoover Institution where we generate and promote ideas advancing freedom.

For more information about our work, to hear more of our podcasts or view our video content, please visit hoover.org.